Curse

Necromas · Mar 09, 2009, 07:07 AM // 07:07

I remember in the old days, I looked at skills like the old [[Barbs], [[Mark of Pain], and [[Weaken Armor], and they interested me. I thought to myself, "Hey, this would be a great way to get some actual damage out of curses!" (this was before I got my hands on [[Insidious Parasite] and [[Spiteful Spirit]). Alas, PuGs were even less organized in those days, and there were no heroes to do my bidding. I couldn't even convince warriors to drop their shiny fiery dragon swords to equip a physical damage weapon when their build had no synergy at all with doing fire damage.

Things are different now though! I have heroes who obey my target calls without question and equip the weapons and skills I tell them to. Even the humans I play with are generally much better at making the synergy work, be it because of my guild/alliance or just because things like sabway have made it more common.

Anyways, none of you care about all that, so here's the build. It certainly has been done before, but here's my take on it.

Curses: 12+1+1
Soul Reaping: 12+1

[Spiteful Spirit] [Mark of Pain] [Barbs] [Weaken Armor] [Necrosis] [Ebon Vanguard Assassin Support] [Signet of Lost Souls] [Sunspear Rebirth Signet]

Cast [[Barbs] or [[Mark of Pain] on the called target depending on enemy positioning and whether or not [[Mark of Pain] is on recharge. When possible use whatever tactics you can to ball enemies up when [[Mark of Pain] is on. Because of the 2s cast time you should precast [[Barbs] on the next called target as soon as you get a chance, and even the third or fourth in line targets when fast recharge procs since it is unlikely the 30 second duration will run out.

[[Weaken Armor] counteracts the high armor the mobs in many of the harder PvE areas have, has great synergy with skills like [[Body Blow] your teammates might be taking, and is a cheap way to meet the requirements for [[Necrosis].

[[Spiteful Spirit] provides more AoE damage to compliment [[Mark of Pain] or just to harass on it's own. Cast it on enemies that attack fast or on bosses, and when using it on a normal mob make sure it doesn't become the next called target. If you are not the target caller, call out your SS targets and hammer it into your teammates heads that it means they should not attack it.

*[[Necrosis] is high spammable single target damage even at fairly low ranks (though you shouldn't have much time to actually spam it), great to have for bosses or just to make normal fights go a little faster. Very easy to meet the requirement and there is no penalty except a 2s recharge for accidentally not meeting it. Gives you more options for single target damage when for whatever reason [[Barbs] isn't effective or available.

*[[Ebon Vanguard Assassin Support] synergizes a little too well with the rest of your build, his fast assassin attacks will set barbs off like crazy, and while he doesn't always like to attack the right target, he'll still do decent damage on his own and can even soak some up.

[[Signet of Lost Souls] is a bread and butter energy management and self heal. SS, Barbs, and MoP can be a little heavy on your energy pool, and depending on how the fight is going and how often your fast cast/recharge items proc, soul reaping won't always keep up. The self healing is just icing on the cake, and while the condition isn't always gonna be there when you need a self heal, it is nice that it has a fast cast time.

**[[Sunspear Rebirth Signet] needs no explaining, and can easily be replaced with any hard res of your choice that you can get from a secondary.

*These skills are the optional slots, a lot of people feel it is cheap to take PvE skills like [[Necrosis] and sometimes I do too. In fact one of the reasons I took [[Necrosis] over other PvE skills is that it's actually a Necro skill, and isn't quite as overpowered as some other PvE skills because you'll be casting other things instead of abusing its' spammability to the fullest. Most curses would be fine to take depending on the area and what your teammates bring, and you could work in [[Hexer's Vigor] for a self heal and [[Signet of Sorrow] for an alternative to [[Necrosis].

**I don't usually go into PvE without a res, just in case I need it, but feel free to go without if that's how you want to play and make it a third optional slot.

I won't bother going into all the combinations possible, but you could easily use those optional slots and divert some attribute points to take some secondary profession skills, or even something from blood or death magic. [[Mark of Fury] stands out, but how useful it is depends on your team, and it would only be useful against really tough enemies because things just die fast enough already under barbs with a lot of physicals wailing on em.

Obviously this build is based on a team synergy, any of the five physical damage classes work well as teammates as long as they're doing physical damage. Skills like [[Barrage], [[Sun and Moon Slash], and any IAS all increase the synergy by increasing the frequency of Barbs and MoP procs.

As sabway has shown, minion masters go very well with this kind of a build too, even bombers, but you certainly don't have to do sabway and I like to avoid relying on an MM.

Paragons and Ritualists with weapon spells have their own synergy with physicals and would make good allies as well.

Pets are also a good source of physical damage, even with low beast mastery they'll still proc barbs and MoP just fine. If they die too easily they can be more trouble than they're worth, but then again letting them soak some damage can be a good thing. Hearty pets would probably be best unless the pet owner had a build focusing on pet damage. Personally I think pets are a fun way to try something different and even a 100% BM ranger will still provide 2 sources of physical damage.

Getting the enemies bunched up, and staying bunched up, will greatly amplify the effectiveness of MoP. Simple positioning can go a long way to this effect, and melee classes should work on getting the enemies bunched at the start of a fight. If you are under attack you can lure the enemy into the AoE yourself. Of course, snares work wonders for keeping enemies bunched up once they are positioned well and earth eles can really exploit the AI with some of their spells to do great snaring and their own AoE damage.

[Edit] I guess I should have made it clearer I was trying to avoid too gimmicky teams like sabway, and skills like [["You move like a dwarf!"] and [["Finish Him!"] because they're just too overpowered. I usually don't even use assassin support unless I need to bail out of a sticky situation and I often take other skills instead just for some variety so I'm not just running the same thing every time.

This isn't PvX wiki, I'm not trying to get a 5 star "Kills things so fast you won't need a backline" rating. I just wanted to share my build and see what people think.

As a related note, don't worry too much about getting bunching down to an exact science, or that one player who doesn't always attack the called target, if it's not a big enough deal to cause a party wipe. There are plenty of hero farm teams already well established that can steamroll PvE if all you worry about is speed and efficiency. On the other side of things if you find the area you are in to be too boring and easy with this build and whatever team you come up with, try doing it with a smaller team.

Luminarus · Mar 09, 2009, 10:48 AM // 10:48

I'd consider dropping SR to 8+1 and running 10+1 blood and bring order of pain to further buff up the warriors/assassins/etc. And maybe bring Signet of Corruption instead of SoLS for energy management, and go /Mo or /Rt for hard rez.

Moloch Vein · Mar 09, 2009, 12:34 PM // 12:34

Wasted elite, wasted PvE slot, otherwise fine.

Redvex · Mar 09, 2009, 12:41 PM // 12:41

Quote:

Originally Posted by Moloch Vein

Wasted elite, wasted PvE slot, otherwise fine.

Agree

[Assassin's Promise]+[You move like a dwarf!]+[Ebon Vanguard Assassin Support]+[Finish Him]
Tnx Calista for show me the way

(Add 3 necro discord team)

Destinyy · Mar 09, 2009, 01:51 PM // 13:51

Quote:

Originally Posted by Moloch Vein

Wasted elite, wasted PvE slot, otherwise fine.

Wow, the OP put all that effort in to write so many paragraphs only to get a +1 comment from you like this one... No suggesting a better elite, no suggesting an alternate PVE skill? Nice... good constructive crit...

As Redvex says, [aassassins promise] is a much better elite as it will recharge your long recharge skills like MoP... Also if you have a have decent Vanguard rank, you can have 3 or 4 sins attacking at once...

It's super UBER!!!

So while your build is cool, You could def make better use of [Assassins promise] that [spiteful spirit]... AP will effectively give you SS every 3 seconds or so... And so much more of it...

Moloch Vein · Mar 09, 2009, 05:07 PM // 17:07

I'm sorry that I don't write a huge reply but as a matter of fact these sorts of builds come up very often in here.

Glints Bane · Mar 09, 2009, 05:30 PM // 17:30

all these people with AP builds.

Personally I run SS with MoP and have heros running IV healer Discord MM. SS is a great pressure skill against monks in HM just stick it on a sin or warrior that is around other people and you have a bad AI monk trying to spam its 5 skilsl O_O. You could also lose barbs....I have found that barbs is outdated and a waste of a skill slot with MoP. If you put barbs and MoP on same target that target will die faster which means less MoP. I cast MoP on harder to kill targets and let minions go to town.

Weaken Armor is a nice AoE cracked armor but honestly with most commonly run builds these days -20 armor doesn't really matter. I would suggest putting in [Enfeebling Blood] for damage reduction on physical dmg foes. Even though it has a health sac if you are playing correctly it should be a problem.

Remember if you want SS to be effective cast it on clumped up groups instead of the loner monk in the back.

But if you want to try something new go AP as before mentioned or go SR +death for IV + Putrid Bile....AoE boom.

Moloch Vein · Mar 09, 2009, 05:35 PM // 17:35

Quote:

Remember if you want SS to be effective cast it on clumped up groups instead of the loner monk in the back.

Do you really think people discussing these builds on this forum aren't aware that SS is an adjacent AoE hex?

That's like saying "remember to hit the foe with Barbs with a physical weapon otherwise it won't do any damage".

It always amuses me when people talk about "pressure skills" in PvE. This isn't a GvG folks, you don't pressure and you don't try to exhaust the enemy's resources, you disable -> spike -> kill.

furanshisuko · Mar 09, 2009, 06:04 PM // 18:04

maybe dropping SR and adding a lil Blood magic would work good maybe something like this?

[awaken the blood] [spiteful spirit] [Mark of pain][order of pain][enfeebling blood][glyph of lesser energy][by urals hammer][optional]

or change this[enfeebling blood] for this [you are all weaklings] if you dont like to sac.

Moloch Vein · Mar 09, 2009, 06:08 PM // 18:08

Why Order of Pain and split attributes when you can EVSOH with no sac and no split for better effect?

Glints Bane · Mar 09, 2009, 07:38 PM // 19:38

Quote:

Originally Posted by Moloch Vein

Do you really think people discussing these builds on this forum aren't aware that SS is an adjacent AoE hex?

That's like saying "remember to hit the foe with Barbs with a physical weapon otherwise it won't do any damage".

It always amuses me when people talk about "pressure skills" in PvE. This isn't a GvG folks, you don't pressure and you don't try to exhaust the enemy's resources, you disable -> spike -> kill.

Sorry for being captain obvious. but both you and I know that some people aren't as "experienced" in the game. I have seen people hit SS on a loner so even though it may be redundant I'll still say stuff like that for newer players who may be reading. (and if you know guru then you know there are quiet a bit)

We all know this isn't GvG or PvP in general for that matter....but you said Spike and if you put SS on a sin in cantha in HM you pretty much have that in AoE format. or any melee characters for that matter in HM.

You can take [You Are All Weaklings] instead of enfeebling blood but sometimes I like to use that third PvE slot for other skills. The sac isn't much and energy isn't a problem compared to the 10 e required for YAAW. But then again we are necros and have SR for that.

As Moloch asked, Why OoP and split atts? OoP is pointless for a build like this and pretty much pointless in most PvE instances. Split atts reduce your effectiveness and DPS output.

infusco · Mar 09, 2009, 07:56 PM // 19:56

Incidently, quick question ... using the AP -> MoP -> Ebon Ass, is the hit rate from the Sin and MoP high enough to knock down the target within 10 seconds or is usage of a Spear to add more hits strongly advised?

Edit: Wiki claims that MoP does not work on target itself, so likely the Sin is not enough, but I'd certainly like your advice on this.

Necromas · Mar 09, 2009, 09:16 PM // 21:16

I guess I should have made it clearer I was trying to avoid too gimmicky teams like sabway, and skills like [["You move like a dwarf!"] and [["Finish Him!"] because they're just too overpowered. I usually don't even use assassin support unless I need to bail out of a sticky situation and I often take other skills instead just for some variety so I'm not just running the same thing every time.

This isn't PvX wiki, I'm not trying to get a 5 star "Kills things so fast you won't need a backline" rating. I just wanted to share my build and see what people think.

[[Assassin's Promise] isn't a no brainer option anymore when, given the above reasons, it would only be useful for [[Mark of Pain] (and ridiculous energy management). It would certainly still be a good choice just for MoP, and it would free up the [[Signet of Lost Souls] slot, but I decided not to take it out of preference.

[[Enfeebling Blood] is a great suggestion, weakness will significantly reduce the damage of most enemies, and it's a fast casting AoE so it doesn't get in the way much of what else you are doing. You could take it instead of [[weaken armor] if you don't want to replace or have other plans for the slots I used on PvE skills, especially in areas where the mobs armor isn't that high or if a teammate has a source of cracked armor. You could also setup weakness synergy just like I suggested about cracked armor synergy.

Voodoo Rage · Mar 09, 2009, 09:23 PM // 21:23

Quote:

Originally Posted by infusco

Incidently, quick question ... using the AP -> MoP -> Ebon Ass, is the hit rate from the Sin and MoP high enough to knock down the target within 10 seconds or is usage of a Spear to add more hits strongly advised?

Edit: Wiki claims that MoP does not work on target itself, so likely the Sin is not enough, but I'd certainly like your advice on this.

You almost want that first target to survive a little bit. As a goof, I've experimented with casting the Ebon Sin and MoP on something rather durable in a mob, like a ranger. The MoP damage by itself almost cleared the whole mob from that single cast (normal mode, though).

Regarding the build in question, I would drop the Sunspear Rebirth Sig for one of many nice PvE skills. Personally I love [Technobabble] in caster heavy areas or [Pain Inverter] against AoE foes or bosses. Also, for a Spiteful Spirit / non-Assassin's Promise build, [Ebon Battle Standard of Wisdom] is nice for skill recharges.